Roberto Santibañez and Robert Del Grande
Roberto Santibañez is the culinary director of Rosa Mexicana in New York City and was formerly executive chef at Fonda San Miguel in Austin, Texas. Robert Del Grande is the executive chef and owner of Café Annie in Houston.
What should American chefs taste when they travel to Mexico? What should they look for?
RS: The different preparations of salsa, moles and pipianes (nut-based sauces). That's the core of what we do. We all have tamales and tortillas, grilled meats and poached meats, but what would they would be without our salsas and moles and pipiánes? Not much. So that's what you need to focus on when you travel through Mexico. What did they do with this adobo or pipián?
What's "lost in translation" when American chefs make Mexican food?
RDG: They're trying to make it too European. They're taking the ingredients and putting them into another context. I was advised by Diana Kennedy early on that if you're going to use these (Mexican) ingredients, don't study European technique. Study the cultures that have used them. You'll learn the tricks much faster.
RS: If you're going to cook Mexican, you don't have to be French trained. Go to Mexico. Learn Mexican cooking from somebody who really knows it.
One fundamental technique in the Mexican kitchen is the roasting of many ingredients. Would you talk about this technique a little?
RDG: It's the heart of the cooking. But what happens is, you'll see a picture in a cookbook of roasted ingredients but you don't understand what's going on. So you try to make it blackened on the outside, but it should be a much slower process. It's not just burning it.
RS: People put tomatoes under the salamander and when they're blackened, they think they're roasted. No. You should put them on a flat top and not at high temperature. The tomato needs to cook first, fully, and then develop that blackened skin. Sometimes you see cooks torching the chilies so they can peel them easily. But you haven't developed the right flavor.
Are there Mexican dishes Americans just don't get?
RS: Yes, that happens. You try to make another type of mole and people don't understand that there's a world of moles beyond the mole poblano they're used to. You try to change it and people don't buy it. "We want the other mole. We want the real one."
RDG: The one with chocolate in it.
So how do you get beyond that?
RDG: I was naïve about the customer. I thought that if you cooked something wonderful and put it out there, they would love it. I didn't realize they had all sorts of fears. In the beginning, we would tell them more about the dishes on the menu, and it would be rejected. The less we told them, the better it did. For example, you couldn't say huitlacoche z (corn fungus), so we'd hide it behind euphemisms like corn truffle or sometimes not even tell them, just put it in there. Then they found out they had enjoyed what they would not have ordered. If you think there's a word that's going to scare them off, you try to say it in a different way.
But even early on, I felt we should always do dishes the right way, particularly when you have your staff looking at you. If you believe in it and it gets rejected, you just say you're ahead of your time and wait a few years. But you do get your feelings hurt a lot.
What's the next hot ingredient from Mexico?
RDG: Hoja santa is one of the most spectacular flavors. It grows in Texas, so growing it is not a problem. It tastes like root beer. It's very perfumey and delicate at the same time.
RS: It's a leaf that belongs to the mint family. It imparts an anisey, minty flavor. It can be blended into sauces or used as a wrapping for tamales or fish. But you can overdo it and then it's a little shocking.
RDG: Chipotle has moved everywhere. Now it's sort of an adjective: chipotle catsup, chipotle salad dressing. It's in everything. Everybody seems to know what achiote is now, but you don't quite see it in every market. So I think achiote is next, either the seeds, which may be harder for the general public to use, or the paste.
RS: In the Caribbean, it's called annatto. The seeds are hard so you have to powder them. It's a seasoning.
RDG: It's wonderful with orange juice and garlic.
RS: We've cooked rice with achiote, just diluted the paste in the water and it was so good, really a delicious rice.
How would you rate the American tolerance for chilies these days? Has it evolved?
RS: The American tolerance for heat is enormous. My family and friends are alarmed at how spicy I cook now. I've been pushed by everybody to cook spicier than in Mexico.
RDG: Fifteen years ago, we were afraid our food would be too spicy. Now we're afraid that it won't be spicy enough and people will think we've gone soft. It's odd when you used to be the one waiting for "It's too spicy!" and now it's, "That's the best you can do?" The good part is, it's opened the door for every chili. In Texas, it used to be just the jalapeño.
RS: You can find everything here. It's easier than if you were in Mexico because, in Mexico, ingredients are localized. In Mexico City, you would have to go to a certain market to buy that chili. In the States, you just order it and it's there the next day. You call your local produce company and ask for hoja santa and they say, "Sure." Epazote? No problem. Nothing is a problem, really.