Najmieh Batmanglij and Joyce Goldstein
Najmieh Batmanglij and Joyce Goldstein are two of America's preeminent authorities on the foods of the Mediterranean and Middle East. Batmanglij's specialty is her native Persia. Goldstein is a Mediterranean generalist. Let's meet them now.
Najmieh, you wrote a whole book on "Silk Road" cooking. Where was the Silk Road? What modern countries does it encompass and what do their cuisines have in common?
NB: Everybody talks about Mediterranean food but not about where it comes from. But between China in the east and Italy in the west, there was an ancient path. There was a lot of circulation between China and Italy, between Persia and the Levant, a lot of mutual enrichment—not just food and drink but ideas, philosophy religion, architecture. The food of Persia, China, the Levant and Italy was woven together by the Silk Road. It's the common denominator. So we see traces of Persian food in Spanish food—the saffron and orange peel.
It's interesting how this food travels. In China, you see a stuffed dough called mantou, stuffed with beans or something sweet and usually steamed. In Iran and Afghanistan, you have the same thing. We call it montou and use a lamb stuffing. In Uzbekistan and Turkey, they call it manti—same dough, different stuffing. In Japan, they call it manzu. In Italy, it becomes manicotti.
Polow, the Persian word for cooked rice, becomes pilavi, pilaf, pullao, then paella. There are so many things that are this way.
Joyce, what seasonings from the Eastern Mediterranean would you like to see chefs use more of? What are some of the great undiscovered flavors?
JG: The seasonings of the Eastern Mediterranean that people find most appealing are the combinations of sweet spices like baharat, where cinnamon, cumin and nutmeg are put together with a little paprika and sometimes rose petals and black pepper. It has a wonderful aroma. And I'm particularly in love with za'atar, wild thyme with sumac and sesame seed. It's a wonderful mixture put on flatbread, but it's also great on vegetables or on rice.
N: But don't use too much!
J: The hand is important. You don't want to drown things in spices. But I would probably sprinkle it on a vegetable like cauliflower that people think is boring. It perks it up nicely. Even on simple steamed potatoes with a little olive oil or butter. Carrots also work well with it. I like it on a very simple piece of cheese, like cottage cheese or fresh cheese. In Portugal, I had beautiful fresh cheeses in the morning with some bread, and a little za'atar would have made my breakfast more interesting.
I'm also thinking of nigella, which people have maybe only had on bread. It takes some understanding of this seed to see how it works, but it would be one to play with on any of your flatbreads. Sumac is a little treasure. It has that lemony brightness which, if you play with it, you can find uses for and not just on traditional things like kebabs or fattoush (Middle Eastern bread salad).
N: When I teach cooking, a lot of young chefs get "inspired," but their fusion becomes confusion because they don't understand the philosophy of that country. Persian food has a philosophy of hot and cold, like yin and yang in Chinese. You have to understand the properties of the food. Why do they put pomegranates with dates? Because dates are considered hot and pomegranates are cold. The combination creates a balance. You use cumin with fava beans because fava beans are cold. It's nice to be "inspired," but understand the culture first.
JG: This is what I call supermarket cooking, where chefs get excited about an ingredient, like Spanish pimentón or pomegranate syrup, but they don't always understand the culture behind it, which is why we get a lot of messed-up food that doesn't hold together. Teaching young chefs about culture is one of the great challenges. They're eager to play with food but don't want to take the time to find out about why something grows someplace and was paired with other foods that grew there. We haven't given them reverence for the past and tradition, and I don't know how to do that. It's what drives me. People say, "You're being so creative," and I say, "I didn't make this up."
Pomegranates are fundamental to Middle Eastern cooking and are starting to make inroads in U.S. kitchens. Any thoughts on how to use the seeds and juice?
JG: The pomegranate came from Iran. It grew wild there and is one of the world's oldest fruits, used anytime you needed a tart flavor. In some countries, it took a background role when the lemon came in. In Mediterranean and Middle Eastern cooking, there is a love for tart and sweet/tart tastes.
I use pomegranates for marinades. It gives the most beautiful caramelization when you're grilling. I made a salad dressing with pomegranate juice and had some vinaigrette left, so I basted a roast chicken with it. The skin was remarkable, crisp and golden, and it had this incredible perfume. You can find the little seeds in the refrigerator case at the supermarket now, so you can use them as a garnish in salads and pilafs. They're stunning. It's like putting rubies on the plate.
NB: On the Persian New Year table, you have to have it.
JG: Also on the Rosh Hashanah table.
NB: It's a sacred fruit mentioned in the Bible and the Koran. The prophet Mohammed said, "Eat a pomegranate a day and it will remove envy and hatred from your system." I think these days we should eat a lot of pomegranates.
Making Pomegranate Syrup
Also known as pomegranate molasses, pomegranate syrup is available in Middle Eastern markets, but it is easy to make your own. Goldstein recommends reducing pomegranate juice, sugar and lemon juice to a syrup consistency. Be careful not to go too far or the syrup will become stiff. California-grown pomegranates are not as tart as the Middle Eastern fruit used in the imported syrup, so lemon juice is essential to achieving the proper balance. Add salt, if you like, and store in the refrigerator.
Seeding a Pomegranate
Seeding a pomegranate is easy if you know how, and there is one more than one good way. Here's the underwater method and what we'll call the rhythm method as demonstrated by Najmieh Batmanglij.
Tell us about yogurt in the Persian kitchen. In what forms do you find it, and how is it used?
NB: Persians don't like to use milk. They use yogurt cheese and drained yogurt. Kashk is sun-dried drained yogurt. It's a fantastic souring agent, and I use that a lot with soups. It's wonderful with grilled eggplant. I mix it with pomegranate to bake a whole fish. It's one of the souring agents that they use a lot in Iran.
JG: I like to use yogurt as a marinade and as a sauce. I add a little garlic and mint to it as an accompaniment for grilled lamb. I make manti (meat-filled dumplings) and that gets the double sauce: yogurt sauce and then butter with paprika. I love to make a Turkish dish of marinated lamb served on grilled pita bread with two sauces: yogurt/garlic sauce and tomato/cumin sauce. Yogurt is a wonderful refreshment for spicy food. It makes a lovely marinade as long as you don't leave meat in it too long as it can break food down.
Any tips on selecting and using saffron?
JG: I use saffron, but sparingly. Too much and it tastes like medicine. I usually either toast it in a pan or rub it in my hands. You have to steep it in liquid first, water or broth or wine. I don't like the powdered stuff because it tastes chemical. Buy the long beautiful filaments, and keep it in the freezer.
NB: I use it a lot and I'm not light handed. I love saffron. You can grind it in a mortar and pestle but I use a spice grinder and add a cube of sugar to absorb the moisture and create a powder. Then you dilute it with boiling water or rosewater. I make this every week and keep it in the refrigerator.
The best chicken kebab is marinated three days with yogurt. I add zest of lime, saffron, onion, garlic and a little olive oil. I don't use yogurt with fish. Iranians really don't like dairy products with fish unless it's kashk.
JG: And in a kosher kitchen, you would never use a yogurt marinade with meat.
NB: I think your geographic situation dictates what kinds of things you use, and necessity becomes tradition.